HOW COME LOOKSMAXXED MEN DON'T GET LAID?
One of my coaching clients, a Singaporean man preparing to study in the US, is worried that white American women won’t be attracted to him because he’s 5’9” and Asian.
We’ve discussed what he needs to do to achieve his desired results, specifically in attracting Caucasian-American women. I shared many examples of men similar to him, or even men he might think are at a disadvantage (e.g., shorter, more heavily accented Asian men) who succeed with the exact type of women he desires.
This coaching client brushed all my guidance aside and kept returning to his looks, saying he wanted to get plastic surgery, and finally saying this:
"So yeah, maybe I have just watched too many lookism / looks-maxing videos, but they seem to make some valid points about how shallow white women can be and how critical first impressions are. I just want to know if investing in my appearance will potentially make a huge difference."
Aha. So it’s media influence.
Even though the glowing screen may seem to make good points, it doesn’t change the reality that a lot of guys who spend tons of time and effort on extreme looksmaxxing (like mewing, plastic surgery, or even "bone smashing" – which started as a joke before some took it seriously; Poe’s law in action) still often end up without dates or sex, remaining incels despite all their efforts.
Don't believe me?
Check this 👇
EXHIBIT A: https://www.quora.com/How-am-I-attractive-but-can-never-get-laid-1
EXHIBIT B: https://looksmax.org/threads/slowly-starting-to-realize-that-everything-is-cope-if-youre-not-meeting-girls-in-person.1040818/
EXHIBIT C: https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/jpxexc/comment/gbhstmv/
So, tell me this: what’s the real difference between taking dating advice from a monk who’s voluntarily celibate and dedicated to chastity versus taking it from an involuntarily celibate looksmax enthusiast, who splits his time between the gym and plastic surgery, committed to vanity?
Is one celibate man more knowledgeable about romance than the other?
Would you trust dietary advice from someone who’s obese, or career advice from someone who’s a beggar?
And on that note, why do so many looksmaxxed guys still struggle to get laid?
A QUICK NOTE BEFORE WE START
Before I dive into looksmaxxing, let me make something clear for new readers: I fully support the importance of taking care of your appearance.
On Value & Vibe, we talk about appearance as part of your ‘fundamentals.’ This means, “If you don’t look good, you’re lacking in some of the basic qualities you need to attract women.”
There are different levels of looksmaxxing, and when done in a balanced way—not obsessively or as a magic fix for dating problems—it can be very helpful. The reality is, that women are more likely to be interested in you if, among other things, you look good.
On Value & Vibe, we encourage men to focus on what the looksmaxxing community calls ‘soft looksmaxxing’:
Slimming down
Getting in shape
Improving your style
Enhancing your hair and facial hair
Fixing your teeth
There are also behavioral aspects that impact how you look, like your eye contact, facial expressions, posture, movements, and mannerisms. How much space you take up and how you carry yourself makes a huge difference in your overall appeal.
However, these things aren’t often emphasized in looksmaxxing communities, but they’re a critical part of your appearance. Ignoring them is a mistake.
All the things that fall under ‘soft looksmaxxing’ are completely fine, and I recommend doing them.
The problem starts when guys cross into ‘hard looksmaxxing.’ That’s when they’ve lost the plot.
This includes things like:
Anabolic steroids
Skin bleaching
Plastic surgery (rhinoplasty, fillers, Botox)
Double jaw surgery
Hair transplants
Limb lengthening surgery
Guys turn to these extreme measures thinking it will help them get laid, but it usually ends up wasting their time, energy, and emotions without giving them much in return.
These are entire industries that often harm men, pulling them away from what they should be focusing on to get the results they want. Just look at Rodrigo Alves, the Human Ken Doll (who later had a sex change to become the Human Barbie). He had 60 surgeries, and half of them were to fix mistakes from previous surgeries.
MALE LOOKSMAXXING IS A SOCIAL AILMENT
Years ago, I came across a study about how mice and rats behave in crowded environments, from John B. Calhoun’s rat and mouse utopia experiment. In these conditions, the rats start displaying behaviors that deviate from what's normal and healthy.
Female rodents, overwhelmed by the crowded space, stop caring for their nests and begin neglecting their young. Some male rodents become uninterested in females and turn to other males, exhibiting homosexual behavior. Others channel their frustration into aggressive battles with other males, competing for dominance in all-male hierarchies.
Another group becomes ‘rodent pickup artists,’ focusing on mating with as many females as quickly as possible, skipping any courting process to get straight to the act.
Then there’s a unique group of male rodents that Calhoun called ‘The Beautiful Ones.’
These males withdraw from competition and spend all their time grooming, making themselves look sleek and well-kept. They avoid fights and stay away from females, isolating themselves in small all-male corners of the enclosure. While they appear to be the healthiest and most attractive animals in the experiment, they remain completely celibate.
The Beautiful Ones have essentially given up on competing for mates. Unlike the fighters who strive for dominance, or the pickup types who optimize their behavior to attract females, these males hope that one day, an opportunity will come their way. They believe that their shiny, well-groomed appearance will increase their chances of success with a female, should the chance ever arise.
But this strategy fails.
The Beautiful Ones in the experiment never mate and eventually die out. And when I look at the looksmaxxed incels today, I see a similar pattern. Some exceptions may exist, but most who adopt this strategy meet the same outcome.
So, why do males gravitate towards this unproductive approach?
MEDIA INFLUENCE AND THE DEATH OF EMPIRICISM
Looksmaxxing is a belief system shaped by media influence rather than grounded in real-world evidence.
It operates much like an ideology, similar to movements like feminism or the widespread promotion of Western LGBTQ+ social agendas.
Men who are dissatisfied with their dating lives and lack experience in relationships are particularly vulnerable to this mindset. To someone without much dating knowledge, it seems logical—based on their desires (“I prioritize attractive women, so women must prioritize attractive men”) and what they see in the media (where the handsome guy with makeup, big muscles, and perfect lighting always gets the girl)—that if they just became attractive enough, they’d have women lining up.
Looksmaxxing enthusiasts often cite studies where women choose symmetrical male faces over asymmetrical ones or prefer square jaws to rounder ones. From these studies, they conclude that unless they drastically improve their facial symmetry or jawline, they’ll never succeed with women, especially the most desirable ones.
However, if you look for research on women’s preferences, you’ll find studies to support virtually any preference imaginable. There’s research showing women prefer every kind of physical trait, personality, behavior, career type, earning level, social status, and even immune system genes (I have studies showing women are drawn to mates based on MHC genes, which influence a man's scent).
Looksmaxxing tends to ignore this complexity and instead focuses on just physical appearance, even though attraction is about far more than that.
From all of this, I can tell you: that women have a million different preferences, and focusing on just one or two is a mistake.
When guys say things like, "You need this kind of symmetry" or "You need to be this height to attract women," they’re making things up. Just go outside, spend an hour watching couples with attractive women, and start measuring the guys’ heights, noses, chins, and symmetry. You’ll be confused—because these guys won’t fit the mold of being super tall, perfectly symmetrical, or having ideal chins. “What’s the secret then?” you’ll ask yourself.
The truth?
There is no secret.
The whole looksmaxxing idea falls apart when you compare it to real-world evidence.
Seduction, on the other hand, is testable.
I can tell a guy, “Approach 20 women and say these things. I promise you most of them will at least be polite and won’t blow you off.” He can go out and try it himself.
I can also say, “The next time you’re in a solid conversation with a woman, try digging deeper and see how she reacts. Odds are, she’ll start feeling more connected to you.” Again, he can test it and see the results. Everything in seduction works this way.
You don’t need to blindly trust—it’s about trying and seeing for yourself.
‘Hard looksmaxxing,’ on the other hand, is something else entirely.
The idea here is to pump your body full of steroids (which might lead to health issues or even mess with your hormones) and hope that once you’re buff enough, women will suddenly flock to you. Or, you’re expected to drop serious money on plastic surgery, spend months recovering, and hope that your new, altered face finally makes you attractive enough to succeed where you couldn’t before.
Does that sound a bit over the top? Because, honestly, it is.
I understand that when you’re desperate, you’ll try anything that looks like a solution. But instead of doing something extreme and waiting ages for results that may or may not come, wouldn’t it make more sense to try something that you can do right away, doesn’t involve permanent changes, and will start showing you positive results much sooner?
(Btw: Dillon Latham, the 20-year-old TikTok looksmax influencer mentioned earlier, has a girlfriend who looks exactly like a girl I was dating when I was 20, overweight, and dressed terribly—way before I even started improving my looks. You don’t need to be looksmaxxed to attract high-quality women.)
LOOKSMAXXING IS AVOIDANCE
Looksmaxxing is, at its core, a way of avoiding the real issue.
It gives men the feeling they’re doing something to improve their dating chances while avoiding the one thing that will help them: talking to women.
Just like those “Beautiful Ones” rats that spent all their time grooming their coats but never actually interacted with females, looksmaxxers focus on their appearance to dodge the scary task of approaching women.
Back when I first started this substack, I saw this same pattern. Guys would ask, “Should I wait until I’ve improved my looks before I start approaching women?”
This is exactly the wrong mindset if you want to succeed with women!
So, what makes the biggest impact on women?
Is it your looks? Or how you behave?
Yes, a peacock’s tail helps it attract mates because it’s a key feature that signals strong genes. But human males don’t have a “primary sexual ornament” like a peacock’s tail.
Our attractiveness isn’t based on facial symmetry, jawlines, height, or muscles, though these can help. Our main attraction tool is our brain.
You can’t just show off your brain, though. Instead, you show it through your behavior. How well you handle social situations, how you engage with women, and how good you are at navigating the dating process are the real signs of your value.
Humans have the most complex courtship rituals of any species, and mastering these takes brainpower and, most importantly, practice. Lots of practice—with real women.
Now you can see why even good-looking men who haven’t worked on their social skills often struggle with women. It’s not just about looks. You could have all the physical features but still not succeed if you haven’t developed your interaction skills.
Sure, good looks might make it easier to get women’s attention, but without the ability to confidently navigate the dating process, you’ll just be a good-looking guy who doesn’t get anywhere.
Deep down, most guys know this.
Do any of them truly believe that if they just fix certain parts of their appearance, women will magically fall into their laps, and everything will work out without any effort?
Hardcore looksmaxxing is driven by fear, avoidance, and procrastination. It’s an excuse to focus on the easy part (appearance) and ignore the hard part: facing rejection and learning from it.
If you want to succeed with women, you must face failure and grow from it.
Looksmaxxing is just a distraction from that reality.
THE KEY TO SUCCESS IS THROUGH FAILURE
You don’t get good with women by going under the knife and getting plastic surgery.
It's not like you walk out with longer legs, a fixed nose, or a reshaped chin, and suddenly women are all over you. It’s not like you get a magic boost in attractiveness. From what I’ve seen, plastic surgery can even make you look worse, not better.
I spent years living in Southern California, surrounded by people who had work done.
Trust me, you can always tell when someone’s had plastic surgery. It always looks a bit off. I’ve even noticed that when people show you photos of their partners before and after surgery, the people they dated before tend to be more naturally attractive.
The people they date after tend to have their own surgeries, be flashy, or come with money. But no one tells them this to their face because people who get surgery are often really insecure about their looks. So, you have to play along and pretend you don’t notice, or that they’ve “upgraded.”
Here’s the thing: even if you aren’t the most attractive guy out there, there are plenty of women who don’t care. I’ve dated beautiful women who, when they showed me pictures of their ex-boyfriends, I was shocked because these guys looked so average.
For a while, I even wondered if I might be ugly myself! Then I decided that it didn’t matter. I was still sleeping with gorgeous women, and most people thought I was charismatic, so why should I care?
Sometimes the women I date ask if I think I’m handsome. I always say I’m the most handsome guy on the planet. They usually laugh and try to argue with me, but I just tell them maybe they need to get their eyes checked. Then they ask if I think they’re the most beautiful women, and I tell them they’re “not too bad.”
My point is: your looks don’t matter as much as you think they do unless you’ve had some serious accident. What really matters is what you do. And part of what you need to do is fail—a lot.
If you’re scared of failure, you’ll never succeed.
Do you know what it feels like to approach women for the first few hundred times? It feels like throwing yourself out there, completely exposed and waiting to be judged. It’s humbling. You’ll find that most women aren’t available at any given time.
Of the available women, some aren’t even looking for a guy. And of the ones who are, some might size you up and think you’re not what they’re looking for right now.
Maybe you’re too much of a player if they want a boyfriend, or not enough of one if they want something casual. A lot of things can go wrong, but that’s part of the process.
After you’ve failed enough and had a few wins along the way, you stop caring so much about rejection. You start to get better and better at the game, and eventually, you pass what I call the ‘Chad test.’ That’s when you’ve built up the qualities women find attractive.
And none of this happens by just lifting weights in the gym or getting surgery. Trust me, I know. I was a gym rat for years in college, lifting heavy and getting strong, but I didn’t talk to women at the gym. And guess what? I didn’t make any progress with women during that time.
It wasn’t until I focused on talking to girls that I started getting results. My first success was at the university gym, where I was sweaty, wearing a tank top, and had a bit of a beer belly.
Despite looking like a mess, I ended up getting a date with a cute, skinny girl. That win had nothing to do with my appearance and everything to do with how I talked to her.
Here’s something you won’t find in looksmax forums: real results with women. I’ve spent hours looking through looksmax forums, and while you can find people bragging about how much better they look now, there’s almost no mention of actual romantic or sexual success. The whole point is supposed to be to improve your chances with women, right?
On my coaching program, however, you can find over 50+ reports of guys who got laid. They detail where they went, what they said, and how they overcame obstacles to get the result. That’s real, practical advice. There’s nothing like this in the looksmax world. It’s just a bunch of vague promises about how things will improve if you wait long enough and keep tweaking your appearance.
The truth is, the guys who get results with women aren’t the ones spending all their time on looksmax. They’re the guys who are out there talking to women, learning the game, and improving their skills.
Looks are important, but there’s a limit. Once you’ve reached that point, it’s more about what you do, not how you look. The men who succeed with women aren’t the ones obsessing over plastic surgery—they’re the ones getting real-world experience.
I’ve seen short, overweight guys with strong personalities and great game date beautiful women. On the other hand, I’ve seen many good-looking guys who struggle because their game is weak. They might look the part, but they don’t know how to attract women in a meaningful way. Some of these guys even become what we call “good-looking incels.”
They have the looks but can’t figure out why they’re not getting laid. Meanwhile, I’ve slept with women that these good-looking guys were stuck in the friend zone with.
Looksmax guys focus too much on appearances and ignore the game. It’s like asking a nun how to be a stripper—it just doesn’t make sense. Appearance helps, but it’s not the most important factor.
If you have to choose between improving your looks or talking to girls, go talk to girls. The real feedback comes from interacting with women, not from staring at yourself in the mirror.
When you’re in the field, talking to women, you’ll start to make small adjustments to your appearance without even thinking about it. You might start losing weight or change your hairstyle based on how women respond to you. And the more you approach, the faster you get feedback. A guy who talks to 200 girls a month will get better feedback than someone who talks to only 20. But even 20 is better than 2.
The key is you have to be out there doing it. No amount of plastic surgery or gym time can replace real-world experience.
Remember, looksmax might get you more likes on social media, or better matches on dating apps, but those are just reactions. The question is: do you want reactions or results?
Flashy guys who get reactions often don’t get results. For me, I’d rather have the result I’m after—getting laid with the women I want—than a bunch of compliments on my looks.
At the end of the day, that’s what it’s all about. Results, not reactions.
-MOS